On Creation and such spells

[Maouse]

Ok, on further reading I've come to the following conclusion -

1.

All spells which say they can be made permanent and don't describe how to
do it need an Enhancement spell to be cast on the item to be made permanent.

Automata need this.
Inanimate Creations don't and can't be made permanent this way.
Creations need this.
Purifications need this.
Fascination uses a duration limit to "kill"/keep the thrall.

Any others?

2.

Innates can be imparted at a cost of 3x casting.
Spell abilities (such as a single spell) can be "taught" into a creation at
a cost of 3x casting.
Skill abilities (such as EL80 armorer) can be "taught" into a creation at a
cost of 3x casting.

Please keep in mind that that is at least an ADDITIONAL 30 mana to be cast,
and that you would need to do this all at once when casting the spell.
Needless there are not a lot of EL 10 creations running around with
multiple special abilities (at +90 mana each, for a total of 120 mana for
one creation with an innate or ability!).

3.

There are two ways to approach creations - one is "randomly" and perhaps
more fun. The second is to allow the person to create anything from their
imagination. These Imaginary creatures can NOT be given innate powers
without cost, but innate abilities they may retain (such as wings to fly
with or move rates of a fay horse or unicorn). This means that created
dragons do not breath fire unless you pay the extra mana. It also means
they can't be given any abilities or knowledge the character lacks. This
would appear to be the logical limit set on this spell. If the random
approach is taken, you may allow innate powers to be free(and no others may
be added, ie. I want to make a firesnake, ok... I want to make a firesnake
who can use killing light, not ok). If the non-random is taken then any
abilities or powers can be imparted, but only those imparted are gained.
So, yes you could clone someone to the best of your knowledge (if you never
saw them naked you may not know about that mole on their arse, though).

4.

It would appear they know languages. Other abilities and skills can be
given at the aforementioned rate (so EL 80 armorer is do-able at 3x cost if
the character is an EL 80 armorer to begin with).

5.

Recast is not being used, permanent magics enhancement is. The same idea
can apply, though... I'll make you permanent tomorrow... sure I will...

6.

Size differences would be either random (in the case of random creations)
or specific. In each case, innates are to be done as outlined above. Random
would create a creature the caster knows about directly from the book (use
of size modifiers is up to the GM, and please remember the HP limit of this
spell). Specific casting can create a 2x or mountain sized if you want. Of
course it still will only have so many HP.

Additional notes:
In all cases of random creation and specific, NAV is as specified in the
book or up to the imagination of the character (say he wants to make a
crystal or steel dragon? NAV is up to GM, but should be allowed to be above
0).

Natural Materials can only be derived from random creations. No
specifically making a moonrose monster(with say 100 blossoms) to harvest,
you power mongering schmucks! You can create it, but unless you have the
innates of a moonrose you can't imbed their power into the creation, so the
aforementioned monster would look and smell nice, and possibly die in the
sunlight, but would not up any stats or otherwise give benifits.

well, hope this has been as insightful for you as it has been for me.

-Marcel aka maouse

ps. has anyone noticed how well this spell lends itself to the shamanic
spell restoration - make a souless(by default creations are souless) and
mindless body for a friend, attach their soul to it and whalla! instant
body upgrade (to say a "dragon")... ok perhaps I've played a bit too much
Cyberpunk in my life... and you might have to add some contingent control
spells depending on your GM (but I would allow it straight out if done
right). So all you wimpy +0,+1,+1,+1 mages that want a +2,+2,+2,+2 body,
get ye spells a workin'. Plus, you can always cast wards to recast and
recreate/connect a brand new you if you ever "die". (I would note that soul
destruction can cause you to die and leave behind the empty vessel for
someone else to use).

Ah, the flesh, that vessel of the soul, so often I have peered through it's
ruby lenses and taken in that which is fleeting.
Date:         Thu, 4 Jan 2001 00:04:43 -0500
Reply-To:     Powers and Perils Fantasy Roleplaying Game Mailing List
              <POWERS-AND-PERILS at GEO.CITG.TUDELFT.NL>
Sender:       Powers and Perils Fantasy Roleplaying Game Mailing List
              <POWERS-AND-PERILS at GEO.CITG.TUDELFT.NL>
From:         Scott Adams <longshot at DARKTECH.ORG>
Subject:      Re: On Creation and such spells
In-Reply-To:  <POWERS-AND-PERILS%2000122821550261 at GEO.CITG.TUDELFT.NL>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:44 PM 12/28/00 +0100, you wrote:
>I have recently run into a few questions regarding certain spells in the
>game which state they can be "made permanent". One such spell that is kind
>of vague is Creation. My questions regarding this spell are:

Hard a time finding the spell in the pdf but finally found it and skimmed
it...

>
>1. How does one make it a permanent spell? Is it done like fascination?
>Permanent magics? (recast and use the rules for the shamanic origin/strange
>powers?) Anyone know or have a way they do it?

It would have to be pern. magics.  Depending on the 'use' it would apply.
For example if it was to stay in a area say as a gaurdian of treasure you
could do a ward.  But something more difficult like a real companino you could
create some spell that stores the thing and/or spell and have it relay the
creation
sorta like a hologram (if you will).  But as a GM you'd have to do some free
form
ruling like extra mana cost spending and such.

>
>2. Can one impart only innates into the creature? Or can one allow the
>creature to use one spell (or group of spells) as innates (as long as the
>mage casting it knows the spell is apparently the limit set in the book).

As I see it one ability.  This means sword use, brick laying or one spell.
I would not allow a group.

>
>3. Can Creation be used to "clone" people and/or creatures or is it just
>the caster's version of the person? (ie. does it make exact duplicates if
>the bonuses permit it to). How smart of a creature can be made (perhaps I
>want to make a copy of myself, how smart is the duplicate? - NO SAR
>Please!).

Cloning for people not fully it would be more a empty clone.  But for animals
like a dog sure I'd go as far as perfect clone.  With not all the skills
though.
I don't recall a Int factor so I would assume it has only the intelligence to
use that one ability and nothing more.

>
>Obvious common sense governs some of this (how many HP would a God have?).
>But if I made a Dragon (EL 7+1 * 10 = 80 HP) would he be a dragon or a
>creation... what I mean is would he have dragon spell abilities or would he
>be limited to only having the "one" ability I gave him. And would he be
>unable to breath fire then (if say I gave him "wounds" as an innate
>instead). If I was an innate magician I could make a true dragon I would
>guess (implant Innate Magician into him so he can cast/learn any spells).

I still say the one ability.  I've not used this spell in quite a few years so
not up on it
fully and don't have it on the screen anymore.  But I do recall something
about
a hp limit or something.  (ok too lazy to rego fetch it - tired).  You can
create
stuff not existing it said from your imagination.  So I could say create a
lion
body thing with the head of a elephant.

>
>4. And the final question which relates to the 3rd one - How much knowledge
>does a created creature have? Do they start as "new creations" and you have
>to baby them to get them to do anything... me, as a GM, would of course
>want this to be so, as a player, not so much (I would want to be able to
>impart any knowledge I had, such as walking/talking/chewing bubble gum and
>weilding swords)... cause as a player I'd love to create an EL 80 armorer
>to do my armoring work while I study spells... as a GM I would not allow
>(even myself) to "just be able to create an EL 80 armorer"...

That's somwhat th ejist of the thing.  As to knowledge it'd be like a clone
fully formed you'd have to train it.

>
>5. If a recast is used, is this how one keeps their creations in line - do
>what I say and I'll make you real... hehehe... SURE I WILL!

No you just threaten oblivion.

>
>6. Can 1/2 size creatures be made with the normal special abilities (or 1/2
>of their innates if you get my jist). If I can create a 1/2 size Storm
>Giant for instance, and he can use Storm Giant Innates, is this a legal
>rule mongering spell? I guess the answer to the original question would be
>yes (you can create 1/2 or double size creatures as long as the HP limit
>allows).

Size didn't seem restricted however the one ability thus your restricted
to that one ability.

>
>That is about all the questions I can think of regarding this spell, hope
>to hear from some of you about this... There are other spells which state
>they can be "made permanent" but never explain how. Anyone know of a way
>(other than making a amulet with permanent magics).

You hae the most popular form like wands, wards and the like.