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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
Wasn't upset. Just frustrating since theres no one good source out there
for all this stuff. Takes 30-40 sites to find that one key piece of data
:) I looked all last night well 6 hours on sites for timber prices,
medieval ship prices, building costs, wood costs, ancient ship prices/costs all
various keyword searches. Nada. I did find 1 site that gave some
interesting facts which I have also confirmed locally when a ship (the old 16th
century ones) came to port and I asked questions. In this case to do
...ugh should've noted this...the HMS Venture was 687K pounds. In today's
figures per the economic history site would be about 28.3 million :) So
making a ship is not cheap as the various other rules in gamedom seem to
imply. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<font color=navy><span style='color:navy'>I agree on the data gathering part.
During our various discussions here I have tried to find things like time to
create a bow or armor in medieval times and price info myself. The problem
is not everything we need has been converted from dead-tree sources. :P<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>So, in a lot
of my sources I have also looked at other games to see what they have done,
hoping that THEY have done some sort of research with offline sources, then
reinterpret their rules with what I can find online and rework those into our
frameworks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>HARN is an example
of this. Their prices seem at least somewhat reasonable (their ship costs are
somewhat formulaic, but produce a high (and not extreme) cost. I mean,
look at the number you gave before – 29k GOLD – that is basically
30 GNI. Are you saying that if the Korchi threw EVERYTHING they had at it
they could build about 14 of these ships per year? Presumably GNI would
go toward maintenance of existing fleets and armies, so it would have to be fewer
then that.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Nearly 30
thousand gold seems a bit high to me...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
If we just make timber cheap or free we really get the bulk of the cost out of
the equation. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Hull</st1:place></st1:City>
structure by all accounts of naval historysites is at least 60-70% of the
ship's cost in olden times. That's expert opinions not mine :<
Course they don't go into greatt detail on those costs. Based on modern
times ...oh darn! darn darn darn! I should have applied that 93 cents to
ancient terms but when? Hrm...good idea to get a 500-600 year rate back
then ....maybe apply it to 11th century rates....I'll have to think about
that. <br>
<br>
Its all subjective. 1 BB is way too cheap for a piece of wood. I
mean you call any hardware store (and I've visited some recently) and compare
prices of the modern same its a bit more. Course it boils down to the
conersion rates.<br>
<br>
<font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Expenses
are most likely a power factor over materials. The raw materials
themselves are fairly cheap (otherwise a peasent could keep himself fed by
trading in 3 1’x1’ planks each day). So you have the cheap
labor cost to produce/gather the raw materials. Add another cost for
cheap labor to transport it to the drydock area. Then comes the expensive
labor to put it together so it won’t sink on you. Layer another
MORE expensive labor cost for each level of “finish” to the boat
(your basic boat being “good”). A “Fine” ship
requires artisans and engineers to turn the basic utilitarian structures to a
more attractive or desirable (or tougher) boat. Superior boats require artisans
put in the gold leaf on the figurehead, and all the fluff.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So
basically, materials are cheap, because you pay Joe Peon crap wages to cut or
haul it. When it comes to making use of the materials you need the
engineers, artisans and craftsmen, and their labor isn’t cheap.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>While we
might be able to determine how long it takes to turn a 1000BF oak tree into
usable lumber by how many men (and thus pro-rate the cost based on daily wage
per man to determine the “cost” per board foot), the harder
research is how long it takes to put-together a ship that requires 100,000
board feet of wood, as well as for larger or smaller ships. With luck we
can find such data, make a few data points and perhaps make a formula that will
work as a rule of thumb (like they use for HARN).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Longshot - ZC of AdventureNet International Echomail Network<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Fringe BBS - EWOG II - 904-733-1721<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Telegard / Allfix Beta Site<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Website: <a href="http://users.cybermax.net/~longshot" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://users.cybermax.net/~longshot</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>ICQ: 24436933<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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