<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-size: 13px;color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family: arial,sans-serif;">In my judgement:<br><br>The Status Upgrade comes AFTER charcater generation, because it is a result fo charcater generation.<br><br>Assuming you pay the 150 points for magic training, you get Permanent Magics free, and spend expertise points that come from the training on any General Knowledge or Elder spell. However...all aligned General Knowledge spells (and about half of them ARE aligned) can only be learned with an Elder orientation.<br><br>They don't get the wealth of starting General Knowledge spells that Wizards do. You could make a case for giving them the limited number Sidhe get, as long as permanent Magics is first. Much like a Shaman (also Elder aligned) they get what they can afford. <br><br>Of course, that's based off v1. I'd have to dig out my copies of the v2 files to check training changes, if any.<br><br>The above is what i have always used. Perm Magics comes free simply because it is core for what dwarves do. they don't cast spells (well, rarely, I believe the book says), they only make items.<br><br><br><blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 0px; border-left: #0000ff 2px solid; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif; color: black;">-----Original Message-----
<br>From: Julian Draven <juliandraven@yahoo.com>
<br>Sent: Jun 4, 2015 3:04 PM
<br>To: The Powers and Perils Mailing List <pnp@list.powersandperils.org>
<br>Subject: [PnP] Dwarf Common Knowledge
<br><br><zzzhtml><zzzbody><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2606">I'm trying to build a male dwarf character using the v2 rules.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2739"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2738" dir="ltr">Per the Common Knowledge section for Dwarf, entry D, only those characters with a station of 4+ can start as an Armorer? I know that P&P is harsh, draconian and unforgiving, but only the wealthiest 10% of the Dwarf race are allowed to be Armorers? That seems exceedingly unfair in an already harsh character creation game. Is this accurate or a typo?</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2737" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2720" dir="ltr">Further down, in the special section, it states that if a Dwarf has an Armorer EL50+ then that Dwarf can spend 150 expertise points for initiation and training. "<zzz!--[if gte="" mso="" 9]=""><xml>
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</xml><zzz![endif]--><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2731" class="" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">Thereafter, he is a Rune Master. He can use
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Master increases his station to six if it is lower."</span></zzz![endif]--></zzz!--[if></zzz![endif]--></zzz!--[if></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2883" dir="ltr"><br><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2731" class="" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2884" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2731" class="" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">So, if, in character creation, you roll 91+ for station, getting the magic station of 4+ for Armorer, and you have an Intelligence (and/or Will) of 50, then you could immediately spend the 150 expertise points at character creation to become a Rune Master? Immediately changing your station to 6? Would that retro-actively change your initial increase factor or your starting coin type?</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2885" dir="ltr"><br><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2731" class="" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2823" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2731" class="" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">Finally the rules on what being a Rune Master means are pretty thin. How many of the Elder and Permanent magic spells does the Dwarf start with? What's his MEL and EL? Would you determine starting MEL & EL as for wizard, sidh & shaman in book 2?</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2886" dir="ltr"><br><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2731" class="" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2887" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2731" class="" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">If I go all the way back to my paper copies of the books, from my original boxed set, the game does specifically state, in Book Three, page 35:</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2906" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2731" class="" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">"A Dwarf character that reaches EL50 as an Armorer can learn<br style="" class="">these rites. To do so he must complete a 150 expertise point initiation<br style="" class="">and training session. Thereafter, he is a Rune Master and can use Elder<br style="" class="">Magics and Permanent Magic as magic-users. Any Dwarf who becomes<br style="" class="">a Rune Master will increase his station to six if it is lower."</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2907" dir="ltr"><br><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2731" class="" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2913" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2731" class="" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">It would seem that Richard Snider did intend for this to be an option open to PLAYER characters.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2914" dir="ltr"><br><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2731" class="" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2915" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2731" class="" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">Any help would be appreciated.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2916" dir="ltr"><br><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2731" class="" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2917" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2731" class="" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">Thanks!<br></span></div><div style="" class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433454423751_2720" dir="ltr"> </div></div></zzzbody></zzzhtml></pnp@list.powersandperils.org></juliandraven@yahoo.com></blockquote></div></body></html>