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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond>Assassin - a point that was hinted at, but never actually
addressed - poisons, complex plans, and other less combat oriented ways
where the assassination cannot be detected. The way I see it, the skilled
assassin can do things up to and including:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond>Plan the entire "night" or "time before" the actual
assassination. Target is A. Friends are B and C. Eliminating B
and C pays a bonus. Skilled assassin then decides the best place &
time is at the big party that A B C attend. Planning includes splitting
the targets, poisoning B first with something in drink, something that makes B
appear sick. So now B and C go to a room to help B. Then the poison
kills B. C is distraught. Assassin uses the distraction to blow dart
C. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond> Now B and C are dead, leaving A.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond>A is still in the big party, looking for B & C.
Assassin pays someone, G, at party to tell A where B & C went plus
freshen A's drink. Unbeknownst to G, the drink also contains the same
poison used on B. A drinks drink while going to find B & C. A
gets sick. Then goes into the room where B & C are dead. A gets
upset, crying like a little girl. The assassin then locks the door w/ A in
there, and waits for the poison to finish the job. If A is too strong for
the poison, there is always alternate 1 - gently suffocating A. Or
alternate 2, the extreme backup - dagger.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond>At the end, when they're found, A and B died of the same
sickness. C had a massive heart attack. The assassin on the way out
laces the rest of the punchbowl with a milder form of poison so many others at
the party get sick, and most don't die. This way, the sickness isn't
confined to the targets. Now A B C are all gone, assassin completed job,
and it looks as if some kind of punch-born disease/food poisoning hit the entire
party.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond>Good Job! Well, kinda...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond>That is part of what Assassin skill gives. Probably the
"truer" form of the skill than just increasing ambush chances.
BUT, can a non-assassin plan and do this? Sure - but odds go down, non-skilled
assassin cannot improvise when things change, etc.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond>Executioner. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond> Killing - The bound and/or helpless are the
key. Ability to dispatch, in a single blow, the bound/helpless
victim. Does free elbows make the target not-helpless?
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond>If target is tied up, laying down, unable to squirm/move, target
is helpless. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond>If target is dazed, standing up and wandering around aimlessly,
with hands bound behind back, target may be helpless. Likely not, but
maybe. It depends on the target, etc. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond>Torture - that seems pretty straight forward. Not something
generally done without a known and stated purpose. Although a variety of
methods exist, I won't go there. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011></SPAN><SPAN
class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=525053813-01082011><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond>Mark</FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> pnpgm-bounces@abroere.xs4all.nl
[mailto:pnpgm-bounces@abroere.xs4all.nl] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>dasandersx@comcast.net<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 30, 2011 6:55
PM<BR><B>To:</B> pnpgm@abroere.xs4all.nl<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [pnpgm]
Assassin/Executioner skills<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<P>Perhaps the availability of the axe, or noose, plus weakened or
drugged prisoners, plus assistants/guards...etc...would make the task
'easy'...but being in the field, with the superior strength of the
prisoner, the size of the creature or humanoid, or the experience the
executioner has with the species, etc, might make the difficulty much
greater.</P>
<P><FONT color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT> </P>
<P>Yes, you can kill a person that's not bound, but that's not the
skill. The skill is only bound or helpless. An unbound, aware
person is going to do/see something...the executioner isn't an assassin, after
all. He's not skilled in stealth...just talking your ear
off...figuratively and really...(eewww...gross)</P>
<P><FONT color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT> </P>
<P>There doesn't seem to be a reason to make two sub-groups of executioners,
either. Why can't one person be both? When he has the tools and
environment, he kills easily (or at least succeeds in his skill roll) and in
the field, under less than perfect conditions, his chance of success, and
gaing expertise points, falls.</P>
<P><FONT color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT> </P>
<P>It's all a matter of defining the difficulty of the situation. Which
has to be done for ALL non-combat skills.</P>
<P><FONT color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT> </P>
<P>As for the assassin...the same applies. Does the character set up or
have the situation to make the assassination easier or is it near impossible
because of the guards and traps and awareness of the target? </P>
<P><FONT color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT> </P>
<P>As for the 'well, anybody could do that' arguments...yes, they can...but
the assassins (and executioners!) are TRAINED to do it, and do it well.
Anybody can grab a sword and kill someone with it...but a TRAINED swordsman is
FAR better at it.</P>
<P><FONT color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT> </P>
<P>dave S</P>
<P><FONT color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond></FONT><FONT color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT><FONT
color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT><FONT color=#800080
face=Garamond></FONT><FONT color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT><FONT
color=#800080 face=Garamond></FONT><BR> </P>
<P>
<HR id=zwchr>
<P></P>
<P><B>From: </B>"Scott Adams" <longshotgm@netzero.com><BR><B>To:
</B>"PBEM List" <pnpgm@abroere.xs4all.nl><BR><B>Sent: </B>Friday, July
29, 2011 9:14:47 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>[pnpgm] Assassin/Executioner
skills<BR><BR> <BR><BR> Powers and Perils is a
deadly system and experience can be fast<BR> and furious.
There has always been two skills that I find to be<BR>
a bit hard to award just blanket experience. The following
outline<BR> both of those skills.<BR><BR>
1) Assassin<BR><BR> We know this is the
largest skill to buy and is worth it since<BR> we
know it can give great benefits. The core items of this
skill<BR> are:<BR><BR> A)
Ambush: Skill use is in the ability to ambush another person.<BR>
Not everyone deals in perfect ambushes. Most tend to
think<BR> ambush is simply come behind a person and
stabbing them in the<BR> back. But to me the aspect
of ambush is in the skill of the mind.<BR> Anyone
can come around a corner and grab a guy to kill him. But<BR>
the more elaborate assassin's use the skills they learned
to<BR> their advantage. Place a carpet over a
hole in a house picked<BR> with spikes and have the
target over it and fall in to his doom<BR> is more
exciting and use of the skill. It also builds
reputation.<BR> Anyone can jump off a boulder to
thrash a man. That doesn't take<BR> so much
skill there. Any hired goon can do that. But the artist<BR>
could rig up a tree trap to trigger blades to pierce targets
then<BR> another tree to propel a net to capture the
victim. That would<BR> be a more elaborate
ambush and worth the experience. <BR>
<BR> The problem is what qualifies as a ambush from
a simple attack? To<BR> me I take it all on a
case by case basis. An ambush can be an<BR>
attack without melee. Fire a bow to a target and kill him
without<BR> touching him. Is that use of Bow
or Assassin skill? Under the<BR> rules it
could be both. But at what point do you decide the<BR>
skill used or the assassin skill? If one simply awarded
expertise<BR> for every attack then the assassin
would be maxed up in short order.<BR><BR> When one
thinks of Assassins one thinks of dark shadows and doing<BR>
it from behind. But that isn't the case all the time.
It is<BR> possible to ambush a person standing
a foot away who has seen<BR> you for minutes.
It is all in the method used. I do think this<BR>
skill adds too much benefits at times. This is why some
balance<BR> has to be used in the reason of
experience.<BR><BR> So to me the best ambush is
those well thought out and with<BR> good role
playing. This doesn't have to happen all the time.<BR>
Simply walking up to a guy to backstab him is fine. Just
keep<BR> in mind the more elaborate the more
experience one might get.<BR><BR> B) Expertise: Does
expertise get earned from the ambush itself<BR> or
from all attacks? To me this is a bit unclear. While a<BR>
assassin is skilled in the deadly arts this seems to be a
easy<BR> task so should he earn more "normal"
experience? A butcher<BR> who works on meat
for 20 years finds some strange new animal<BR> to
butcher should he earn higher experience or just assume<BR>
its so "standard" that experience is low. Sometimes
experience<BR> can only go so far. So should a
deadly killer get more experience<BR> than a simple
infantry guy because he is in a guild? Maybe<BR>
not for everything. But the assassin would have possibly
more<BR> from methods like poison but then again one
could argue it<BR> should be poison skill not
assassin. <BR><BR> A person in my world can
still react to a ambush. A person<BR> who is
about to be jumped from a tall tree could react in<BR>
a second or two. Their senses might detect the ambush
EVEN<BR> though the ambush by the rules is good.
So in that split second<BR> a assassin
backstabs a person the target can still sense it.<BR>
Though he is very likely not about to react time.
<BR><BR> With that said I award Assassin
expertise based on the style<BR> of ambush and the
overall possible reaction. It is taken on<BR> a case
by case basis.<BR><BR> Expertise is gained by the
ambush effect but not for all<BR> attacks or bonuses
that the Assassin skill awards. Does the<BR>
assassin benefit from the full combat effects all the time?<BR>
Yes. Those effects are always on like OCV or weapon
bonuses.<BR> Frankly I've always though Assassin
should learn Healer so they<BR> learn the anatomy of
the body for the most efficient way to<BR> kill.
But that is a side issue.<BR><BR> C) HPV
bonus: Frankly I do tend to forget the HPV bonus for the<BR>
expertise gained. I always catered to that being for
actual<BR> targets rather than just random spur of
the moment attack. But<BR> going forward I'll
include the hpv bonus in the expertise.<BR><BR> D)
How best to earn assassin expertise: Anyone can get behind<BR>
a person and stab a knife in their back. The true aspect
of this<BR> skill is the exceptional use. Even
with a perfect ambush by the<BR> numbers there is
still a chance the target will react a split<BR>
second before. A half second before the knife digs deep
the<BR> person's sixth sense will alert him. So in
that slight chance<BR> the expertise might be less
or none depending on the level of<BR> awareness.
Again, I take it a case by case basis.
<BR><BR><BR><BR> 2) Executioner<BR><BR>
To me there are two forms of executioners in pnp. Those
who are<BR> paid as a living to kill or torture.
Then the common man who has<BR> had some skill
or training in some way to do it privately but not<BR>
in some official capacity.<BR><BR> A) Private
to public: Clearly public executioners are the common<BR>
hang-men or axers that chop off folk's heads or the secret
prison<BR> torture guy. Those guys get the
most immediate experience based<BR> on the fast
tasks they perform.<BR><BR> Where the issue of
experience tends to come in is private folks.<BR>
Anyone can kill a person that is helpless. The line comes in
that<BR> area that gives the basic experience for a
death blow or killing<BR> a person using the
execution skill. <BR><BR> B) What defines
helpless? The obvious would be ropes or being<BR>
knocked out. But a target can be helpless if he is
standing<BR> right in front of you and can't defend
himself. The problem is<BR> where does the
gray line divide from basic combat kill, execution<BR>
kills or assassin/ambush kills? One can argue that if the
person<BR> can defend themself or not helpless the
skill is wasted. In some<BR> cases I find that
the skill can still be used in those situations.<BR>
But it is a case by case basis. For example a man who is
bound<BR> but has elbows free is bound but not
helpless. He could still<BR> elbow a person to
fight back. Would that cancel the executioner<BR>
skill? The problem is the fine line for these
points.<BR><BR> C) Torture: The nice aspect of this
skill is the torture. It<BR> clearly will earn
experience without question. You either get<BR>
answers or you don't. The problem is the other side of the
skill<BR> on killing.<BR><BR>
D) Difficulty level: Which level does the GM assign for
the<BR> task? IT depends on the situation.
A bound guy on the floor<BR> will be a easy
Easy task. If that person is squirming then<BR>
maybe a one grade higher. But what about the barbarian
who<BR> is helpless running away from the knight on
his horse? The<BR> knight may be expert rider
but doing a quick executioner skill<BR> to kill the
guy in one blow is hard thus would be a Impossible<BR>
or such level of difficulty. This is how I judge the
factors.<BR> By far the most common would be easy to
moderate level for<BR> the most common
things.<BR><BR> E) Other restrictions: Little is
added to the final result<BR> for the executioner
skill. But there is no black and white<BR>
answer to the situation. While the majority of cases no<BR>
other restrictions will apply there may be one or two.
For<BR> example, a person who has to execute
his friend in order to<BR> save a town. That
person who normally would not shake his<BR> hands
might and thus slip. So it will be a case by case
thing.<BR><BR> F) Non-skill use: The problem is
where is simple common<BR> killing or executioner
death needed? The easy answer one<BR>
must declare the skill being used or common skills will be
used.<BR> The more complex answer is that not every
execution might be<BR> deemed a execution. It
is beyond the scope of this document<BR> to cover
every situation. For example leaving a bottle of poison<BR>
for a prisoner to drink in a cell isn't a normal
execution.<BR> But if the prisoner is thirsty enough
he'll be desperate to<BR> do it. While its not
a direct execution it might qualify<BR> as
experience. But leave that same prisoner in a cave which<BR>
may or may not collapse is likely not a execution.
There<BR> is no control over that situation so
it is not a direct<BR> result of your execution
skill, so no experience.<BR><BR> G) Non weapons: The
common weapon is the axe for a executioner.<BR> But
that isn't needed all the time. He will be able to use<BR>
any weapon of their choice. Even if he isn't skilled in
that<BR> weapon he could use it though at a reduced
EL. So any weapon<BR> is allowed. in
fact non traditional methods are allowed as<BR>
well. Martial arts or some could even use magic to kill
without<BR> using a normal
weopon.<BR><BR> H) Executioner bonus: The execution
benefits are not always on<BR> unlike the Assassin
benefits. I only invoke those benefits<BR>
when the skill is declared in use. Otherwise the person
would<BR> be trying to kill everyone in one blow
rather than knocking them<BR> out or taking
prisoner. So the benefits are turned off when the<BR>
skill isn't used.<BR><BR> I) How to earn
experience: As outlined before the torture end is<BR>
straight forward. But the other side killing is not so
easy.<BR> First a person must declare the skill is
being used. The problem<BR> is that anyone can
kill a person. The intent needs to be defined<BR>
for the death. If one is to kill to quicken the death due
to<BR> pain then experience would be awarded in that
the best death blow<BR> is the fastest and most
efficient. But if the intent is to kill<BR> a
person with pain and leave them bleeding from the stomach then<BR>
maybe the experience will be little to none. This is
because the<BR> goal of the skill is to kill not
prolong life. Torture does<BR> prolong the
life of the victim but the other side of the skill<BR>
does not. This is where the fine line is drawn.
<BR><BR>y<BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>pnpgm
mailing
list<BR>pnpgm@abroere.xs4all.nl<BR>http://abroere.xs4all.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pnpgm<BR></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>