[pnpgm] Ruling on Oblivion...
Scott Adams
longshot at darktech.org
Tue Apr 21 08:57:32 CEST 2009
Ok. This subject of Oblivion could get way out of hand so I want
to address it in a separate file. I can argue points in the PNP
mailing list if need be. But I want to give my views on it then
give my ruling. If you don't care anything about the Oblivion
subject-thread then ignore this post.
First, over the last decade in this game I've done like I do for every
player group I've had in the last 30 years. Its a learning curve for
myself and for the players. As groups get more powerful I tweak the
rules and get less lenient. For example Adventure #1 I didn't care
about food or water. Adventure 2 I did. In first 2 I didn't care
much about horse encumbrance but now I do. In first two adventures
I didn't care about item damage but from 3 on I did. Rules change
and rules shift. This is to improve play in various ways. It helps
folks get acquainted with the game and with the style of play. Also
as you guys get far far more powerful I have to balance it to the
good guys favor again. Otherwise it would be a walk in the park
each time. I'm a strong believer in Balance.
Now for this adventure more rules will be used like movement effects
from damage, trauma and some minor other ones I've not used before.
Now with that said let's look at the spell.
OBLIVION ALIGNMENT Balance
The spell transports a specific victim within the caster’s
range to oblivion. He ceases to exist in a meaningful sense until
the duration ends. The Caster who sent him can recall him. The
cost to recall someone is twice that required to send him.
While a victim is in oblivion he is not affected by the
passage of time. When the Duration of the spell ends he returns
to the place from which he was sent exactly as he was when he
left. It will seem to him that he had a momentary blackout though
years may have passed.
A Hit Point Limit applies with this spell. If the creature
is larger, the amount of the excess is added to his MDV in
resisting. If the result of the spell is Abysmal Failure the
Caster goes to oblivion. He remains there until the Duration
ends.
I'll take it apart line by line.
The spell transports a specific victim within the caster's range to
oblivion.
GM: 1) I can interpret that "transport" to a shift in existence or
dimension. 2) Oblivion can be a place or a non existence.
He ceases to exist in a meaningful sense until the duration ends.
GM: "cease" is a harsh word. It could be a physics level term like
a black hole. When you reach a certain point then you cease to
exist but are always technically everywhere in the universe on
a quantum level. For Fantasy some feel its a niche hole.
The Caster who sent him can recall him.
GM: "recall" could in some ways mean that the GM can say "come back"
and poof he is back. A bit vague there.
The cost to recall someone is twice that required to send him
GM: There you go have to expend mana or energy to recall him so
its a willful act that seems to be directed toward the gods
as all "mana" requests are in the mythos.
While a victim is in oblivion he is not affected by the passage of time.
GM: Seems straight forward. But some can read this as cease to
exist on a normal "thinking" level or simply in the middle world.
Oblivion could be a upper world realm for example. So why
can't the folks just be sent there? No time passes and no
escape from this place.
When the Duration of the spell ends he returns to the place from
which he was sent exactly as he was when he left.
GM: Here is the tricky part. "from which he was sent". Will
return to this :)
It will seem to him that he had a momentary blackout though years
may have passed.
GM: Hours or years. In one culture punishment is 200 years in Oblivion.
So this is well beyond the age of a person. Ergo we must conclude
that maybe the spell remains even after the caster's death?
This seems only logical but then may mean the spell is tied to
a place or god and not a caster.
A Hit Point Limit applies with this spell.
GM: This seems to imply that a hit point limit is for living things.
Therefore does this mean objects can't be included? It doesn't
say structure points or DR. In pnp material life is DR damage
resistance. So does this rule out items?
If the creature is larger, the amount of the excess is added to his
MDV in resisting.
GM: Makes sense. But it doesn't put a size limit to a object.
If the result of the spell is Abysmal Failure the Caster goes to
oblivion.
GM: Make sense. But one could read it as if he can stop the spell
could he do it from inside? I'd say not. The gods would not
like the punishment be that easy.
He remains there until the Duration ends.
GM: That cancels out the recall order so he can't just stop it. Which
supports my comment.
DURATION 2 months (EL factor applies as a power)
RANGE (EL+1)*2”
HIT POINT LIMIT (EL+1)*6
GM: Notice this formula. Means 6 hits for EL0. How many pcs have
that low or creatures. One could reason that the spell is meant for
small things as a base not large things. Even at a decent eL10 your
only talking 66 points which can't even trap a dragon.
Now, I did some more research...
POTEH Contact Level 9
Lord of Oblivion, Master of Forgetfulness, God of Forgotten Knowledge,
collector of things lost, Reader of Fate, Lord of the Unknown, Knower
of the Unknowable, the eternal void, Warden of the Forgotten Well,
dweller beyond the veil, Master of the Planes, Keeper of the
Unalterable
GM: Based on that I can infer Oblivion is a place not a thing. The
person simply doesn't stop and poofs out. He does go somewhere.
Likely based on the above to his realm.
Alex found this ...
Book 2 p.32 OBLIVION An Innate user of this spell using Energy Level
rather than trained Casting Ability rolls Abysmal Failure - is the
caster sent to Oblivion? [No]
GM: From some errata stuff. Looks like Questions to Richard and not
sure if you answered or he did. But to me that denies
divine punishment. :<
GM: Another interesting Oblivion keyword found was in the western lands.
A dragon has Oblivion innately through touch.
GM: Another search found is Sentinel Beast from v2 It however seems
to break general concepts of this rule. Oblivion used by this
creature send the person d100 miles away from the target. Thus,
this implies the oblivion can shift or the god protector of this
creature "allows" the target to be turned away for the SB's
protection.
Now the theory is to make Oblivion a big-bag-o-many-holdings.
Personally I despised the D&D version of the bag. It was abused way
too much. "Where is my sword..oh there...hey I found your sailboat
back here...Jo you need your wagon its still here too..."
I personally prefer brains over dependent skills and spells. Role
playing is to me far more enjoyable than simply pushing a button and
getting something done or casting a spell. We have all seen the
abuse spells like Time Travel (oh I'll go back and do the right path
to the gold), Wisdom/Knowledge (oh gee I don't need to think of that
puzzle I'll just download it from the gods), and other spells. To
me using your brain is far more rewarding.
With that said....Panther is right where do you draw the line between
spell mechanics and science. Fantasy and Science? In the past I
have been lenient with the spell in that you can take stuff with
you and just release it. At that point I didn't care. But when
it comes to hiding magic items (a cheap way rather than using brains)
than it becomes more important.
Some the question is
1) Can you recall the person back where you currently are or back
where the spell was originally cast?
2) Can items be put into it
3) Can a box of held items be used?
Based on the above Oblivion is either a place or a non existent thing.
A pocket void. A niche universe. If we go with science it is a
niche universe, alternate dimension or other world. If we bring
that out further we could consider string theory to be attached.
Based on the fantastical pnp universe and mythos and Poteh it should
be a place, a realm in the upper world. A place where folks might
or might not be able to wander around but not escape. It could
be a realm where even he might travel and find the person. As to
the person ceasing to exist. Maybe that is in the middle world but
not the upper world. Once back he will have no memory of such things.
Being a god, and god of Oblivion, one could assume Poteth has rule
over the realm and can enter it at will. . If he found a person of
value or interest (or item). He could interact with it. This brings
a new aspect to the oblivion idea of balance. Could also add spice
to things sent to Oblivion. :)
Based on the Sentinel beast's odd ability that implies the gods have
some ability to protect the beast. Poteh just happens to be the
god of choice for this beast. Therefore Richard must have felt that
Poteh has the ability to AFFECT the spell results. Ergo my interaction
above should fit. If I were to interpret the "return to the place"
where it was cast line I would have to conclude that it is where it
was cast. The niche universe doesn't roam with you. As to the whole
deck of a ship thing one could look at String Theory and assume
hyperspace, whitespace, niche universes and other dimensions are
attached to ours at the same "string" point. If we go with that then
the deck of a ship is moot. The planet may have moved in the universe
but the person returns back to the earth not to space. On a simple
common sense term this fits for fantasy as well. Personally I prefer
the spell be used at spot and not taken with you. But seeing as the
S.B. can affect the parameters that seems to make me think. One could
argue the anchor to the spell is attached to the caster. That the
niche universe roams with the caster. Based on this argument I will
allow it to travel though I personally think that could lead to
major abuse. But I can balance that out. The "anchor" is a mana
detectable presence and thus can be detected/senses. As a permanent
oblivion ward might be attached to a building. So even though you
might hide items there is still magic signatures around the caster.
This also means a trapped beast angry about to kill a caster would
also find the caster again at the duration if it travels with him.
So that adds a bit of danger spice. :)
Items are a bit more unclear. Common sense say a person brings his
clothing with him. Invisible, insubstantial seems to affect
items so common sense would say the spell can affect such items. So
where do you draw the line? Clothing but not a wagon the person
is sitting on? The hit point limit doesn't give much hope so
if one were to include items one must assume some size or value
limit. So yes items can be allowed. But I'll have to come up
with some rules on that. Magic items will clearly defend with their
MDV. The exact rules I think I'll come up with privately a formula
on size or hit like point system. A talisman might be easier than
say a full magical dragon armor suit. So those rules I'll work up
on. It might be that each item will have to be rolled for. A box
theory still might resist the items inside. Think of it as Poteth
not wanting anti-his alignment items in his realm.
The box within a box or a Bag covering things is a clear trick. But
I suspect size limits have to apply even on non magical items. One
simply can't poof a castle or wagon away at EL0. Just seems way
too powerful for that. (Think of the Dragon in the example for the
spell - too big). So I'll apply some hidden rules on that as well.
It will have to be experimental. Based on the whim of Poteth.
As you might get to EL10 maybe you could poof a wagon at that point.
This then also brings the issue of odd items like sand or water.
Since there is no people how will Poteth react to such use of the
spell for his realm? Sand dirtying up his place? Or an apple tree
suddenly popping up in his estate. Not good if he hates apples.
So yes place items in a sack or box. Try to poof it all at once. But
things inside can still defend against the spell likely if Poteth
feels it might annoy him.
Conclusion
1) Oblivion - Upper World Realm
2) Poteth maybe other gods could enter this realm interact with objects
and people in oblivion if so desired.
3) Poteth can affect spell results any or all spell parameters
4) The trapped person can travel with caster
5) Anchor to person is magic detectable
6) Items allowed in oblivion
7) Items will defend if magic against won't help unless intelligent
8) Poteth could affect item transport
9) Can use box/sack full of items with size or item value limits and
Poteth can affect such item transport
That should be good balance :)
Hey...an idea...if Poteth can send things 200 miles away for S.B.s'
maybe he could reverse it..send other things through the gate...hrmm
I shouldn't have read that SB entry :)
I will work on the item rules/mechanics during the cruise mentally
when I have time.
A clap of thunder sounds as the god's gavel pounds down....
So say I....
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