[pnpgm] Ruling on Oblivion...
Schnockel
dasandersx at comcast.net
Tue Apr 21 19:10:45 CEST 2009
I have a great idea...let's send someone to Oblivion and then build a solid
pillar in that place and see what happens when he returns...sounds like
fun...except for the volunteer.
heehee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Adams" <longshot at darktech.org>
To: "PBEM List" <pnpgm at abroere.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 11:57 PM
Subject: [pnpgm] Ruling on Oblivion...
>
> Ok. This subject of Oblivion could get way out of hand so I want
> to address it in a separate file. I can argue points in the PNP
> mailing list if need be. But I want to give my views on it then
> give my ruling. If you don't care anything about the Oblivion
> subject-thread then ignore this post.
>
> First, over the last decade in this game I've done like I do for every
> player group I've had in the last 30 years. Its a learning curve for
> myself and for the players. As groups get more powerful I tweak the
> rules and get less lenient. For example Adventure #1 I didn't care
> about food or water. Adventure 2 I did. In first 2 I didn't care
> much about horse encumbrance but now I do. In first two adventures
> I didn't care about item damage but from 3 on I did. Rules change
> and rules shift. This is to improve play in various ways. It helps
> folks get acquainted with the game and with the style of play. Also
> as you guys get far far more powerful I have to balance it to the
> good guys favor again. Otherwise it would be a walk in the park
> each time. I'm a strong believer in Balance.
>
> Now for this adventure more rules will be used like movement effects
> from damage, trauma and some minor other ones I've not used before.
>
> Now with that said let's look at the spell.
>
> OBLIVION ALIGNMENT Balance
>
> The spell transports a specific victim within the caster's
> range to oblivion. He ceases to exist in a meaningful sense until
> the duration ends. The Caster who sent him can recall him. The
> cost to recall someone is twice that required to send him.
> While a victim is in oblivion he is not affected by the
> passage of time. When the Duration of the spell ends he returns
> to the place from which he was sent exactly as he was when he
> left. It will seem to him that he had a momentary blackout though
> years may have passed.
> A Hit Point Limit applies with this spell. If the creature
> is larger, the amount of the excess is added to his MDV in
> resisting. If the result of the spell is Abysmal Failure the
> Caster goes to oblivion. He remains there until the Duration
> ends.
>
>
> I'll take it apart line by line.
>
> The spell transports a specific victim within the caster's range to
> oblivion.
>
> GM: 1) I can interpret that "transport" to a shift in existence or
> dimension. 2) Oblivion can be a place or a non existence.
>
> He ceases to exist in a meaningful sense until the duration ends.
>
> GM: "cease" is a harsh word. It could be a physics level term like
> a black hole. When you reach a certain point then you cease to
> exist but are always technically everywhere in the universe on
> a quantum level. For Fantasy some feel its a niche hole.
>
> The Caster who sent him can recall him.
>
> GM: "recall" could in some ways mean that the GM can say "come back"
> and poof he is back. A bit vague there.
>
> The cost to recall someone is twice that required to send him
>
> GM: There you go have to expend mana or energy to recall him so
> its a willful act that seems to be directed toward the gods
> as all "mana" requests are in the mythos.
>
> While a victim is in oblivion he is not affected by the passage of time.
>
> GM: Seems straight forward. But some can read this as cease to
> exist on a normal "thinking" level or simply in the middle world.
> Oblivion could be a upper world realm for example. So why
> can't the folks just be sent there? No time passes and no
> escape from this place.
>
> When the Duration of the spell ends he returns to the place from
> which he was sent exactly as he was when he left.
>
> GM: Here is the tricky part. "from which he was sent". Will
> return to this :)
>
> It will seem to him that he had a momentary blackout though years
> may have passed.
>
> GM: Hours or years. In one culture punishment is 200 years in
> Oblivion.
> So this is well beyond the age of a person. Ergo we must conclude
> that maybe the spell remains even after the caster's death?
> This seems only logical but then may mean the spell is tied to
> a place or god and not a caster.
>
> A Hit Point Limit applies with this spell.
>
> GM: This seems to imply that a hit point limit is for living things.
> Therefore does this mean objects can't be included? It doesn't
> say structure points or DR. In pnp material life is DR damage
> resistance. So does this rule out items?
>
> If the creature is larger, the amount of the excess is added to his
> MDV in resisting.
>
> GM: Makes sense. But it doesn't put a size limit to a object.
>
> If the result of the spell is Abysmal Failure the Caster goes to
> oblivion.
>
> GM: Make sense. But one could read it as if he can stop the spell
> could he do it from inside? I'd say not. The gods would not
> like the punishment be that easy.
>
> He remains there until the Duration ends.
>
> GM: That cancels out the recall order so he can't just stop it. Which
> supports my comment.
>
> DURATION 2 months (EL factor applies as a power)
> RANGE (EL+1)*2"
>
> HIT POINT LIMIT (EL+1)*6
>
> GM: Notice this formula. Means 6 hits for EL0. How many pcs have
> that low or creatures. One could reason that the spell is meant for
> small things as a base not large things. Even at a decent eL10 your
> only talking 66 points which can't even trap a dragon.
>
> Now, I did some more research...
>
> POTEH Contact Level 9
> Lord of Oblivion, Master of Forgetfulness, God of Forgotten Knowledge,
> collector of things lost, Reader of Fate, Lord of the Unknown, Knower
> of the Unknowable, the eternal void, Warden of the Forgotten Well,
> dweller beyond the veil, Master of the Planes, Keeper of the
> Unalterable
>
> GM: Based on that I can infer Oblivion is a place not a thing. The
> person simply doesn't stop and poofs out. He does go somewhere.
> Likely based on the above to his realm.
>
>
> Alex found this ...
>
> Book 2 p.32 OBLIVION An Innate user of this spell using Energy Level
> rather than trained Casting Ability rolls Abysmal Failure - is the
> caster sent to Oblivion? [No]
>
>
> GM: From some errata stuff. Looks like Questions to Richard and not
> sure if you answered or he did. But to me that denies
> divine punishment. :<
>
>
> GM: Another interesting Oblivion keyword found was in the western lands.
> A dragon has Oblivion innately through touch.
>
> GM: Another search found is Sentinel Beast from v2 It however seems
> to break general concepts of this rule. Oblivion used by this
> creature send the person d100 miles away from the target. Thus,
> this implies the oblivion can shift or the god protector of this
> creature "allows" the target to be turned away for the SB's
> protection.
>
> Now the theory is to make Oblivion a big-bag-o-many-holdings.
>
> Personally I despised the D&D version of the bag. It was abused way
> too much. "Where is my sword..oh there...hey I found your sailboat
> back here...Jo you need your wagon its still here too..."
>
> I personally prefer brains over dependent skills and spells. Role
> playing is to me far more enjoyable than simply pushing a button and
> getting something done or casting a spell. We have all seen the
> abuse spells like Time Travel (oh I'll go back and do the right path
> to the gold), Wisdom/Knowledge (oh gee I don't need to think of that
> puzzle I'll just download it from the gods), and other spells. To
> me using your brain is far more rewarding.
>
> With that said....Panther is right where do you draw the line between
> spell mechanics and science. Fantasy and Science? In the past I
> have been lenient with the spell in that you can take stuff with
> you and just release it. At that point I didn't care. But when
> it comes to hiding magic items (a cheap way rather than using brains)
> than it becomes more important.
>
> Some the question is
>
> 1) Can you recall the person back where you currently are or back
> where the spell was originally cast?
> 2) Can items be put into it
> 3) Can a box of held items be used?
>
> Based on the above Oblivion is either a place or a non existent thing.
> A pocket void. A niche universe. If we go with science it is a
> niche universe, alternate dimension or other world. If we bring
> that out further we could consider string theory to be attached.
> Based on the fantastical pnp universe and mythos and Poteh it should
> be a place, a realm in the upper world. A place where folks might
> or might not be able to wander around but not escape. It could
> be a realm where even he might travel and find the person. As to
> the person ceasing to exist. Maybe that is in the middle world but
> not the upper world. Once back he will have no memory of such things.
> Being a god, and god of Oblivion, one could assume Poteth has rule
> over the realm and can enter it at will. . If he found a person of
> value or interest (or item). He could interact with it. This brings
> a new aspect to the oblivion idea of balance. Could also add spice
> to things sent to Oblivion. :)
>
> Based on the Sentinel beast's odd ability that implies the gods have
> some ability to protect the beast. Poteh just happens to be the
> god of choice for this beast. Therefore Richard must have felt that
> Poteh has the ability to AFFECT the spell results. Ergo my interaction
> above should fit. If I were to interpret the "return to the place"
> where it was cast line I would have to conclude that it is where it
> was cast. The niche universe doesn't roam with you. As to the whole
> deck of a ship thing one could look at String Theory and assume
> hyperspace, whitespace, niche universes and other dimensions are
> attached to ours at the same "string" point. If we go with that then
> the deck of a ship is moot. The planet may have moved in the universe
> but the person returns back to the earth not to space. On a simple
> common sense term this fits for fantasy as well. Personally I prefer
> the spell be used at spot and not taken with you. But seeing as the
> S.B. can affect the parameters that seems to make me think. One could
> argue the anchor to the spell is attached to the caster. That the
> niche universe roams with the caster. Based on this argument I will
> allow it to travel though I personally think that could lead to
> major abuse. But I can balance that out. The "anchor" is a mana
> detectable presence and thus can be detected/senses. As a permanent
> oblivion ward might be attached to a building. So even though you
> might hide items there is still magic signatures around the caster.
> This also means a trapped beast angry about to kill a caster would
> also find the caster again at the duration if it travels with him.
> So that adds a bit of danger spice. :)
>
> Items are a bit more unclear. Common sense say a person brings his
> clothing with him. Invisible, insubstantial seems to affect
> items so common sense would say the spell can affect such items. So
> where do you draw the line? Clothing but not a wagon the person
> is sitting on? The hit point limit doesn't give much hope so
> if one were to include items one must assume some size or value
> limit. So yes items can be allowed. But I'll have to come up
> with some rules on that. Magic items will clearly defend with their
> MDV. The exact rules I think I'll come up with privately a formula
> on size or hit like point system. A talisman might be easier than
> say a full magical dragon armor suit. So those rules I'll work up
> on. It might be that each item will have to be rolled for. A box
> theory still might resist the items inside. Think of it as Poteth
> not wanting anti-his alignment items in his realm.
>
> The box within a box or a Bag covering things is a clear trick. But
> I suspect size limits have to apply even on non magical items. One
> simply can't poof a castle or wagon away at EL0. Just seems way
> too powerful for that. (Think of the Dragon in the example for the
> spell - too big). So I'll apply some hidden rules on that as well.
> It will have to be experimental. Based on the whim of Poteth.
> As you might get to EL10 maybe you could poof a wagon at that point.
> This then also brings the issue of odd items like sand or water.
> Since there is no people how will Poteth react to such use of the
> spell for his realm? Sand dirtying up his place? Or an apple tree
> suddenly popping up in his estate. Not good if he hates apples.
> So yes place items in a sack or box. Try to poof it all at once. But
> things inside can still defend against the spell likely if Poteth
> feels it might annoy him.
>
>
> Conclusion
>
> 1) Oblivion - Upper World Realm
> 2) Poteth maybe other gods could enter this realm interact with objects
> and people in oblivion if so desired.
> 3) Poteth can affect spell results any or all spell parameters
> 4) The trapped person can travel with caster
> 5) Anchor to person is magic detectable
> 6) Items allowed in oblivion
> 7) Items will defend if magic against won't help unless intelligent
> 8) Poteth could affect item transport
> 9) Can use box/sack full of items with size or item value limits and
> Poteth can affect such item transport
>
>
> That should be good balance :)
>
> Hey...an idea...if Poteth can send things 200 miles away for S.B.s'
> maybe he could reverse it..send other things through the gate...hrmm
>
> I shouldn't have read that SB entry :)
>
> I will work on the item rules/mechanics during the cruise mentally
> when I have time.
>
>
> A clap of thunder sounds as the god's gavel pounds down....
>
> So say I....
>
>
>
>
>
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